CliqueClack TV

Battlestar Galactica – “All will be answered” … kinda

Battlestar Galactica Ron Moore cameo

Well now, this is a little overwhelming. I’ve got three hours of this show — the FINAL three hours — to talk about, and it’s tough to know where to begin. Alright, first, let’s start with the screengrab above. Twenty geek points for anyone who knows who the bearded man is in the picture, minus twenty if you didn’t say Ronald D. Moore. It was only a matter of time before the man made an appearance.

Alright, I know — I’m stalling.

Let me start with what was good, then end off with what was bad. (*GASP!* Yes, the bad).

The Good

The first half of the two hours of this episode (it really did flow like one episode, so let’s just call it one) were exactly what I was hoping for. It was clear that all of the budget saved for this episode was put to good use in these effects sequences. My eyes were glued to the TV. I could tell those in the chat thought the same, since the chatter was pretty quiet during that time.

This next part is really strange, because it’s a part I really liked while at the same time sorta hated: Tyrol’s revenge against Tory and everything falling apart from there. You could see it coming with her warnings to the group, and then it just happened. Not only did that happen, but everything leading up to that moment — the ominous “final five” in the white robes, the opera house, the “deal” with Cavil — was all for absolutely nothing. Even Cavil had had enough of it and put a bullet in his own skull. I’m betting Moore absolutely LOVED that he pulled that stunt on us fans.

The Earth reveal, starting with the ships coming over the Moon. The final moments on present-day Earth, with the what-the-frak-are-they Balatar and Caprica chatting together about the future, the Ron Moore cameo and then, of course, the Hendrix version of “All Along the Watchtower.”

And … that’s about it. Not much there, right? So let’s get into …

The Bad

Everything past them finding Earth, then before the final four minutes or so, was snooze-inducing. Not only that, but I spent the entire second hour wondering if I liked the idea that these people were our ancestors and that they’d make these really strange decisions. This is also around the time that the chat I was running heated up, and not because everyone was cheering — we were getting bored and getting confused.

Speaking of those strange decisions, the quick thinking behind sending all of the ships into the Sun to start anew and … AND letting the Cylon Centurions go on their merry way with even less thought was just … wow. I’m still trying to wrap my head around that. To think Adama would lose even a second’s sleep over completely destroying the Centurions in one fell swoop is mind blowing. As one person in the chat said, why not land them on the dark side of the Moon, just in case? Adama said the Centurions returning was a risk, yet he decides to neuter any chance they’d have to defend themselves.

Hear that? That’s the sound of my hand palming my face.

Now for that part I mentioned above that I liked, with Tyrol ending Tory. The part I didn’t like was that we learned that pretty much that entire exchange leading up to that moment was for nothing. Tory was nothing. Cavil was nothing. Saving Hera, the opera house, Roslin’s visions, Baltar and Six saving Hera … was for nothing. They found Earth without any of them and the survival of the human race didn’t need Hera at all. It was all nothing.

Now there’s Starbuck. We still don’t really know what the frak she was, though we can assume, I guess, that the Kara who came back from the dead was actually an angel all this time, as was Head Baltar and Head Six. Angels … really. I’m going to have the notion of them being angels sit for a while longer — writing anything about it after a half-hour of thought isn’t doing it justice. However, Kara being an angel in the same way the Head people were is against the apparent “rules” we’ve seen. Kara was interacting with things and people — touching and moving things that people could see.

Also, wasn’t Head Six, you know, kinda evil?

We still don’t really know how Starbuck — the first Starbuck — arrived at the first Earth. No idea what happened there. We also got no further knowledge about Kara’s father, Dreilide Thrace. Maybe he’s God?

The thought of all of these people starting from complete scratch, then not passing on their knowledge to the natives of the planet is hard to fathom. Well, so is the thought of our ancestors coming from another planet, but that’s beside the point. Sending the ships into the Sun felt way too convenient, as was thinking everyone would be completely fine and on board with the idea of starting out as savages.

Wow, that’s a lot more bad than good, isn’t it? I’ve got to say, this finale doesn’t go up there in the books as one of the best. I’m not even sure it’ll be all that memorable. We ran a poll in the chat during the episode, and only a third of the people thought the episode was amazing. This should have been amazing, and it could have been. But don’t ask me how I would have made it better — that wasn’t my job.

In any case case, it was a fun bunch of years covering this show for you all. I started this out long ago on TV Squad, then leaving there to finish up the series here. Thanks to those of you who followed me over, including (but certainly not limited to) Dorv, bsgfan2003 (what will you call yourself now?!), Oreo, Tim-1 and akbar fazil. We’ve had some great discussions and I’ve enjoyed reading every comment you’ve posted. I’m not sure I’ll be covering Caprica when it premieres, but hopefully you’ll join in on other shows I cover now and in the future.

With that … *cue dramatic Bear McCreary music*

What do you hear?

Nothing but the rain.

Then grab your gun and bring in the cat.

Boom, boom, boom.

Photo Credit: SciFi

61 Responses to “Battlestar Galactica – “All will be answered” … kinda”

March 21, 2009 at 12:39 AM

I thought the whole opera house thing was a HUGE letdown. For seasons and seasons they teased that and where did it lead? The ship’s command center…. wow…

A huge letdown from a show that had so much promise in the beginning.

March 23, 2009 at 12:18 PM

The whole opera house reveal to me was just prophetic dream come to be true. Not a let down at all.

March 21, 2009 at 12:45 AM

Boom Boom Boom indeed. As small as that line was, it was really the only thing I felt that I ‘needed’ to hear with the finale.

I’m with you, and I’m glad that I didn’t have to write anything substantial this soon. Its definitely something that I’ll need to sit with. As I mentioned in the Chat, it makes the Religious themes that have always been on the periphery so much more relevant.

One counterpoint though. Hera _did_ lead them to Earth. It was her dots/stars/notes that Kara, in the moment, assigned numbers to and jumped.

March 21, 2009 at 12:52 AM

Except not really because Starbuck was an angel, so if “god” wanted them to find Earth it could have through Starbuck and Hera would be useless.

March 23, 2009 at 11:34 AM

Hera’s giving Starbuck the notes was only one small part of her special destiny. Her becoming mitochondrial eve was the more important part.

Being the hybrid child allowed her superior DNA to be then infused into primitive man’s gene pool was her primary purpose.

March 23, 2009 at 11:35 AM

When Kara blind jumped the Galactica and we saw the surface of our Moon I yelled out “Boom, boom, boom”

I hope you heard that from me in the ether Dorv. :)

March 21, 2009 at 12:46 AM

How was Kara Thrace the harbinger of death?

March 21, 2009 at 12:53 AM

Good question. All I can think of is “all of this has happened before, and will again”. So that means she lead the people to Earth, and in 150,000 years we will destroy ourselves.

March 21, 2009 at 12:52 AM

She effectively brought about the end of the human race as they knew it by landing them on Earth…to be reborn into the same thing 150,000 years later. Kara, Hera, and the whole opera scene were just plain disappointing.

March 21, 2009 at 2:01 AM

Keith: You pretty well hit the nail on the head with your review, especially about Hera. I’m with you and Dorv, I am going to have to reflect on this a little, and gather my thoughts. Poor Boomer!

March 21, 2009 at 2:41 AM

I thought Boomer got exactly what she deserved, but that’s just me.

I was curious as how you’d react to a little Park on Park murder action.

March 21, 2009 at 3:45 AM

Yes. That was one the worst moments of the series for me. If my brain would have been made of wire and circuits, say, like a centurion, a meltdown overload would have occurred after seeing that. I felt the writers stabbed Boomer in the back when they did that. And to add insult to injury they made my beloved Athena her assassin! Of all people Athena knows what it is like to be the victim of pain and misunderstanding! I don’t blame brave Athena for this however…terrible writing selection is the culprit here. Athena would have NEVER….done that. What kind of writing is that?! We will just have to amend them again and attribute it to extreme battle fatigue or accidental weapons discharge. I’ll write more about that later but say…you have to admit, Boomer came through. I knew she would. I’ll check in on you guys tomorrow.

March 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM

You say they found earth anyway and the whole thing with Hera meant nothing, but Hera basically gave Kara the jump code through the note of the music and her (Heavenly?) father did appear to her to help her unlock the secrets of the music. As for her and Head Baltar and Head Six being angels and interacting or not interacting with the humans, if you know your Bible stories, there are certainly many accounts of angels being sent to earth and physically interacting with humans, some in human form and some in angelic form (for example, it was angels sent to Sodom and Gommorah that Lot saved from being raped by the people of the city by offering up his own daughters, but he didn’t know they were angels). People of faith believe that angels walk among us every day and that some may be in human form, possibly as a person begging for help, to see just how good or bad us humans can be. Angels work for God, so I believe Kara found on the first earth was indeed Kara, and the Kara that came back was simply a messenger or servant of God sent back in the form of Kara to fulfill his Divine Plan of saving the human race (God doesn’t always get his hands dirty in these matters so that’s why he has the angels). What is a God without people to worship Him? And he still has angels in the form of Caprica and Baltar keeping an eye on us.

As far as letting the Centurions fly away, I just think it was the noble thing to do. Destroying them would have only caused more ill will amongst those Cylons who teamed with the humans to save Hera and humanity. I was a little surprised that there wasn’t more resistance to the plan to destroy the fleet and start from scratch but maybe they were all in awe of the beauty of where they were and really didn’t want to muck it all up again.

I thought it was a terrific ending and I wasn’t bored by the second half in the least.

March 21, 2009 at 4:14 AM

The first half was awesome, of course, but I was concerned that the finale would have so much action that we would miss out on those more intimate moments between characters. So I was pleased with the “boring” second half because it gave us a chance to wind down, wrap up each character’s story thread. Although the transition between the two halves felt pretty abrupt – one minute they’re about to be blown up, and the next minute they’re at Earth and the fleet has rejoined them.

I would compare the multiple endings of the finale to Peter Jackson’s Return of the King, which also was wrapping up an epic story and took forever to end because 1) there are so many loose threads to tie up and 2) you want to give the many characters a proper farewell.

March 21, 2009 at 6:27 AM

that’s pretty much exactly what I would have written if you hadn’t written it first.

I thought this was one of the most awesome, sad, happy, awful, great series finales I’ve ever seen.

The ending was a bit cheesy, but I’ll forgive them – thanks RDM & BSG for this journey – it’s been a rollercoaster.

Now, how the frak am I going to be able to watch any other programmes now, I think I’ll just go for a walk instead.

March 21, 2009 at 7:51 AM

Enjoyed it but i am still confused.

What is the relevance of the Hendrix song at the end please?

March 23, 2009 at 11:20 AM

Hihly recommend everyone read the interview with RDM and others here:

in regards to the Watchtower song:
RDM: “…The music, lyrics, the composition is divine, it’s eternal, it’s something that lives in the collective unconsciousness of everyone on the show. … It’s sort of a connection of the divine and the mortal. Music is something people literally catch out of the air, they can’t really tell you and define exactly how they compose it. Here is a song that transcends many eons and many different people and cultures, literally across the stars, and ultimately was reinvented by one Mr. Bob Dylan. “

March 23, 2009 at 11:47 AM

Wow that was a lot to read through. I get annoyed when an interviewer says one thing that sounds very kiss-assy, then turns around and calls out their real thoughts (i.e., she says she liked how Starbuck’s story ended, yet she says she knew the Internet would be pissed off about it — sounded an awful lot like she wasn’t sure herself, if you ask me.)

March 21, 2009 at 9:04 AM

Loved both halves, both the battle and the denouement, although I couldn’t have guessed that all the action would be over 45 minutes before the end.

I think Kara was a shade rather than an angel, sent back from the Underworld by Death (Hades?) as his harbinger, with a shiny new chariot to finish her worldly business.

Actually, I think the deal with Cavil falling apart was part of breaking the cycle. If he had gotten resurrection, he would have eventually hunted them down and exterminated them, along with all the other humans anywhere else in the universe. So I don’t feel the opera house was a waste.

The same story with Adama just letting the Centurions go. They were allies, and neither side betrayed the other for once.

Amused to see Pegasus completely crumple against a mere base ship, while Galactica punched right through the colony walls, basically intact. I guess the Pegasus was like a modern naval vessel, with little in the way of old-fashioned armor, and the Galactica was built like a WWII battleship, with feet-thick plating.

About the only thing I didn’t like was the complete discarding of their civilization, other than clothes and supplies. I’m not opposed to their abandoning all technology, although I don’t see why they had to forfeit medical, agricultural, irrigation and communication tech, but it seemed like a fundamental idiocy not to leave some kind of beacon behind.

At this point, every human and Cylon knows about the cycle and the importance of not repeating it. Sure, they’ll pass their histories and mythologies down in oral and written traditions but they should have realized those would eventually die out, or be regarded as nothing more than fables, just as the Scrolls of Pythia were. The merging of human and Cylon technologies should have been able to bury a broadcast mechanism deep underground, so that if humans ever develop radios again, they can hear it. Or if you can’t keep a power source running forever, leave a tomb on the moon with technology that proves the old stories. Heck, ask the Centurions to come back once each century and broadcast a message over the planet. I’m just sad that they didn’t look ahead to the obvious future and try to do something about it.

March 21, 2009 at 10:18 AM

The finale proved once and for all, that the writes just made this up as they went along. What a mess.

The Good – Cally being avenged, despite the fact we saw it coming a mile away. Rosalin, best character development for the series. The old school cylons and theme…that’s about it.

The Bad – Starbuck -what the frak. Cavil first talking, surrendering, then killing himself.

The Idiotic – Giving up all their tech. (Except for Adama who kept a raptor…What happened to it??) Letting the centurions go free. Most of the backstory and the plan turning out to be meaningless. Saving Hera meant NOTHING. Moore’s cameo.

The fact that Baltar survived, ruined the finale for me. Someone whould have put a bullet in his head ages ago.

March 21, 2009 at 10:25 AM

The finale wasn’t bad, but it didn’t live up to the greatness of the series. The same could be said for the entire second half of the season.

Explaining everything away as divine intervention is weak. If you explain such things, you ruin them. I would have preferred it if they didn’t ram the whole angel thing down our throats. Subtlety would have strengthened the message they were trying to get at.

The entire scene in CIC from when Baltar and Caprica Six enter to see the final five to the point where Kara jumps the ship away was terrible. I was laughing out loud at how bad it was. The general idea that Baltar was the one to finally figure it out was great. But the “deal” was a bad one. I didn’t buy that either side would accept it. Cavil blowing his brains out didn’t make any sense at all.

Personally though, I really loved the Earth connection. I’m glad they did it because everyone expected it from as soon as they mentioned Earth way back when. I would have preferred for the Centurions to have all been destroyed though. The idea they just went off somewhere and never came back (yet ;)) doesn’t feel right.

All in all, it was good fun to watch, but it failed to live up to the series as a whole.

March 21, 2009 at 1:43 PM

I would contend the many, many times that RDM has publicly stated that they’ve been making it up as the good would have been proof enough :)

March 21, 2009 at 2:46 PM

Sorry, this reply was meant for the above comment by KVC.

March 21, 2009 at 10:50 AM

Good review. I have to disagree with you on the Starbuck thing. I think she is just a dead person who was sent back as proof that there is life beyond death. She isn’t nesessarily an “angel” in the same sense as Head Six and Baltar – after all they certainly seemed more in the know than she did. I think she was just a guiding light to the colonials and a tool of god.

I think you’re to something with her father though. I think that the one she saw at the piano was in fact god. Not that her real dad is, but I think that god did take that form to show Kara the way.

All-in-all I thought it was a solid finale. I need a second viewing to pass final judgment, but I’d say a 9/10. The only question I am left with at this point is what does god prefer to be called? :D

March 21, 2009 at 11:05 AM

Still marinating in the finale.

March 21, 2009 at 11:49 AM

I forgot to lament: poor Racetrack and her Dead Man’s Hand.

March 21, 2009 at 12:01 PM

Only questions.
#.1 Who played themusic tru the ship?
#.2 Starbuck who/what was she?
#.3 The final 5 said they made the other cyclons?Then why were
they never copied?
#.4 Why did we never see baultar ghost talking to 6.
#.5 the final planet (earth? or no)
#.6 Starbuck has the harvengar of death.So who did she kill?
#.7 Was the bones of the child found 150,0000 years later harra?
#.8 What was harra truly?
#.9 Was starbuck a hybrid reserected .
As always writters try and get cute and screw up the ending of shows.Stargate sg1 2 movies.they sucked,this was screwed up.sepranos,take your pick. only 1 i seen ending was great was sons of anarchy.they keep they storyline .

March 21, 2009 at 3:05 PM

1) Music wasn’t played through the ship, it was in their heads. God did it.
2) Starbuck was a Messiah. A being that was dead and resurrected so that she could help the Fleet.
3) There must have been some copies made, as ELLEN was resurrected. My assumption is that as they were individuals, they didn’t want multiple copies of themselves running around. The saw the eight models as children.
4) As Keith mentioned, we did see this, IIRC, in the episode ‘Downloaded.’
5) The final planet is Earth as we know it given that name by the Colonist because it represented the dream that they had that the original Earth did not fulfill.
6) “You are the HARBINGER of death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end.” I argue here that her destiny was to bring the Colonials to this new Earth, where life as they knew it ceased. Civilization devolved.
7) Yes, we are left with those bones being HERA. Which, if you game out, means that if her bones were found as a child, then she did not survive the harshness of this new world for very long.
8) Hera was the hybrid between two races that, among other things, was imbued with the secret to Earth. I think the Music is less a key of the Cylon as much it is a chance for these two races to break their cycle. Hera was the key, yes, but the key mentioned in the mythos/scriptures/whatever that again leads these two back into the cycle. None of their scriptures ever talked about breaking the cycle, just that this “…has all happened before, and will happen again.” Kara is the key to breaking the Cycle, whereas Hera was the key to the next step in continuing it (by giving the Cylons the ability to reproduce naturally).
9) See number two.

Nothing frustrates me about BSG more than ‘fans’ that complain about it being written by the seat of the writers. Guess what?? They’ve opening talked about that from Season One on. It should be a surprise, and it has lead to some pretty interesting storylines over the years.

I’m still sitting with finale, and will probably want to watch it again before posting my full thoughts (and just to warn everyone, its going to be a long one… So, you know, skip it if you’re a hater, embrace it if your not ;). I will say though, the longer I sit with it, the more I like the finale.

March 21, 2009 at 3:50 PM

Skip a Dorv post? Not in a 150,000 years! I’m still working on mine too. There is so much to munch on here.

March 21, 2009 at 7:31 PM

Actually, the newscast said that it was the remains of a young woman, so Hera could have been in her twenties, even.

Although the way she’s always stupidly running off on her own, and Africa having large predators, sinkholes and cliffs, I wouldn’t be surprised if she only lasted a couple of weeks on Earth, now that God no longer has any reason to protect her.

Actually, it’s the long novel form shows that often disappoint me the most, as they don’t allow for character drift. Everything is sacrificed toward this amazing ending that was written before the first episode, so any characters that get away from the writers are beaten into their little boxes with the plot hammer.

When you have good writers flying by the seats of their pants, storylines flow organically from character development, and sometimes you can get some amazing results. I would count both BSG and DS9 as shows that surprised me in this fashion.

March 21, 2009 at 12:15 PM

Couple of things:

1) No one mentions the Hitchhikers ending?

2) Didn’t the news reports from 150,000 years later Earth mention that the remains of a girl were found? Doesn’t that mean Hera does not last long on new Earth?

March 21, 2009 at 6:39 PM

That does not mean that it was Hera they found. It would be impossible to pinpoint a date 150,000 years to the exact timelife of Hera. At best, carbon dating is rounded to hundreds of years. No sir. I choose to believe Hera, Athena, and Helo lived a full, happy life. Don’t take that away from me(I know….it’s just a show, but it’s THE show)!

March 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM

They refer to Hera as the Mitochondrial Eve. Her cellular mitochondria are the source of these little intracellular powerhouses for the entire human race.

March 21, 2009 at 1:03 PM

I gotta say, I’m a bit incredulus with what I’m reading. The 1st and 2nd hours were the yin and yang of BSG. For all the effects and action the show was fundementally about HUMANITY and it was tempered with all the action. I’ve got a startling revelation for you guys, were human, so the last 4 minutes really drove the story home. Seriously, all of the exposition in the 2nd hour had more finality than the colony battle. The whole show was about how humans would deal with the genocide of the human race. Last night was about what do they do at the end of the line, and how do they start over.

As for the questions, the answers are really quite simple. The Opera house was all about saving Hera, and Hera gave Starbuck the notes to the song which gave her Earth 2. What is confusing about that? The Opera house played out exactly the way they visioned it with Caprica and Baltar being her savior. It was in that aftermath that Starbuck put it all together and made the final blind jump. It ain’t rocket science! I love the sweet irony that a show that has been humanism for the last 5 years has actually been all about god, forgiveness, and love. As for the angels being temporal breaking all the rules, remember that episode when head Caprica lifted Baltar off the ground? Ron Moore said he wanted the shot to be a little more ambiguous, so that statement added to the revelation about Starbuck gives a clear indication that head six was in fact temporal when she lifted Baltar off the ground. As for why the let the Centurions go, it was to stop the frakking cycle of violence!!! My god people, they said as much. If the Centurions aren’t enslaved, they don’t have a reason to see revenge. In fact, since the rebel cylons freed them from Cavil’s lobotomizing, they actually owe the rebel cylons, and by extension the colonials (remember that storyline). Finally, Adama’s love for Galactica is what kept it going. She never let him down, and she took him right to the end. That’s what the flashbacks were about. His love for the old girl kept the Humanity alive and brought them to their final resting place.

I really don’t see how any true “fan” of the show wouldn’t see this as the perfect ending. Justice was meted, Baltar got his redemption, explanations were given without being spoon fed, Lampkin became president, and Rosalin died in peace knowing she led her people home. So congrats people of CliqueClack, you officially don’t get it.

March 21, 2009 at 1:24 PM

To James above:

#4: Yes, we did see her talk to head Baltar before.
#5: Didn’t the clear view of the continents clue you in that this was our Earth?

To Adam:

“The Opera house was all about saving Hera, and Hera gave Starbuck the notes to the song which gave her Earth 2. What is confusing about that?”

She provided the notes, so why was she still important beyond that, as in, why was she so “key” in this episode? Starbuck had the notes, her purpose was over.

The Cylons being let go about their own business was retarded. So was their reasoning — they were violent and easily flawed machines, now with hundreds of thousands of years of technology ahead of the humans, now unleashed upon the universe in a very irresponsible way. Even Adama admitted it was a risk — thanks for letting those machines go to, you know, come back and take over the planet in a few hundred thousand years. It was a silly move and one not thought about for longer than a minute. I didn’t mean enslave the Cylons, I meant dismantle or send into the Sun with the rest.

Also, seeing as they felt it a good idea to throw away ALL reasonable technology, including medicine, clothing (at some point, right?!) and other modern supplies that would have helped them survive.

You’re really stretching with putting no fault to this episode. To say I, and many here who found the episode flawed, to not be “true fans” is unfair. I think there’s a line between true fans and people who are so wrapped up in something that they refuse to acknowledge flaws or acknowledge why some people didn’t share your thoughts of perfection.

“Perfect?” Really?

March 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

I agree. And I also thought that all they had to do was turn the centurians off. Didn’t the rebel cylons have the ability to do that? It would be the epitome of irony if the decision to free the centurians actually restarted the “cycle” of violence (as themed) in BSG).

March 21, 2009 at 4:38 PM

“She provided the notes, so why was she still important beyond that, as in, why was she so “key” in this episode? Starbuck had the notes, her purpose was over.”
H2O above 32 degrees just makes water. H2O below or at 32 degrees makes ice. Its just the way of the world. Starbuck had the notes for awhile, but she still never found Earth. What happened was a perfect storm, the reason they found Earth was singularly Kara Thrace, even if she added the last ingredient. It was the Opera House, going to the Colony, rescuing Hera, Racetrack launching the nukes, Baltar serving his purpose, etc. It was deus ex machina, but over a series of events. Quite simply, finding Earth was an equation that could only be solved with Hera. That was pretty obvious even if you only choose to focus on the last part of the equation. But, you must have at least picked up on the fact that Hera was mitochondrial Eve. That makes her the direct descendant of mankind, which means that we would have come from her lineage, not the cro magnuns or colonials. That would make her pretty important.

The Cylons being let go about their own business was retarded. So was their reasoning — they were violent and easily flawed machines, now with hundreds of thousands of years of technology ahead of the humans, now unleashed upon the universe in a very irresponsible way. Even Adama admitted it was a risk — thanks for letting those machines go to, you know, come back and take over the planet in a few hundred thousand years. It was a silly move and one not thought about for longer than a minute. I didn’t mean enslave the Cylons, I meant dismantle or send into the Sun with the rest.
Your ignoring several key facets. The cycle has always been robotic servants rebelling against their human/humaniod creators. The only way to end that cycle was to send the machines away and allow them to shape and fufill their own destiny. RDM made clear after the finale that the colony was destroyed by floating into the black hole after the nuke blast. The centurions are the only remaining machine cylons, and by setting them free the cycle was broken. They no longer have a reason to hate the colonials. Furthermore, they owe the rebel cylons and by extension the colonials for them removing the inhibitor chips from the centurions. That gives them a reasons to thank them, not come back and kill them. It also made more sense for them to destroy the fleet because it was their computers, ships, and technology that lead to Armageddon. There was absolutely no indication that they got rid of their clothes or medicine, so assuming they got rid of those items which are “technology” as much as they are basic necessities is pretty baseless.

Of course there’s fault in everything, but this was the perfect ending to the BSG saga. It really satisfied everything the show was about, and the things you listed under “bad” were some of the strongest points of the episode. It definitely a fair assessment to say that you didn’t “get it” because your responses were nonsense. It may not have been what you wanted it to be, but it was definitely the ending it had to be. If I recall correctly, there was over an hour in the miniseries before the bombs started to fall, and even then there wasn’t huge action. The show began around characters, so it only made sense that it ended the same way.

March 21, 2009 at 10:09 PM

Lee specifically says they’ll take their clothes and basic supplies, but leave everything else behind. They’ve been running out of medicine since New Caprica, so their stocks must be nearly exhausted by now. That planet was nearly dead, and Earth was a radioactive cinder. Now they’re on an Earth teeming with billions of species of flora and fauna, yet they abandon the scientific instruments and precision tools they would need to develop new medicines from all that diversity. That was the part that boggled my mind. With nothing left to them but rudimentary herblore, they’re going to have a lot of illnesses, injuries and epidemics. No wonder Hera died young.

If they’d just left behind their spaceships, computers and war machines, and retained their beneficial technologies, they still could have become an incredibly advanced lost civilization like the Atlanteans or Lemurians, leaving the way clear for the desired modern Earth ending.

March 21, 2009 at 10:21 PM

It definitely a fair assessment to say that you didn’t “get it” because your responses were nonsense.

“Nonsense?” That’s being pretty harsh. Anyone else think I was talking complete nonsense?

March 21, 2009 at 10:42 PM

Not nonsense at all. Your opinion, as we’re all entitled to. (Maybe I’m biased in this regard because I decided long ago that I like your writing.)

I’m in agreement with you about head six. I always viewed her as an evil/twisted influence too, at least until recently. Perhaps the difference has something to do with Baltar’s state of mind at the given time.

March 22, 2009 at 12:17 AM

Keith, your review was NOT nonsense. You brought up many interesting points. Fans should realize that great shows get great scrutiny, nothing wrong with that.

March 21, 2009 at 7:40 PM

The point is that even the Centurion Cylons are people, not just technology to be discarded. This was a big part of the show, as many in the fleet didn’t consider the skinjobs to be people and therefore they possessed no civil or human rights. You can’t rape or murder a toaster. To dismantle, shut down, or incinerate the Centurions would only introduce hatred back into the cycle.

It’s a risk, to be sure, but that’s the chance you take when you are compassionate rather than ruthless.

March 21, 2009 at 1:32 PM

Interview with RDM about the finale. Answers some questions mentioned.

March 21, 2009 at 4:42 PM

I loved the finale, I have to say though that picking apart the series and looking for underlying meanings was never why I watched it. I watched it because it was a GOOD SHOW.

Only a few scenes in the whole series left me with goosebumps, the last scene when it showed how close they were to earth and “All along the Watchtower” was playing, the scene when they finally reached earth and found it destroyed and the worst was the last few minutes of the finale last night. When RDM and crew decided to show just how far we, as a technological society have gotten to actually creating something like a cylon, it is cause for thought. I know, I know, a machine can not go beyond its programming but, I know there are a lot of computers out there that can do things that I can’t.

March 21, 2009 at 5:39 PM

To preface, may I just say how my non-tv watching husband did his best to ruin the finale for me. It was 9:03p, and, “Hey I’m making an omellete, do you want one? “No, o.k, hey do we have green onions, where? I can’t find them. Hey what are you watching? Who is that? What’s he doing?” (You get the point, right?) Pure Agony.

The best part for me last night, was after the jump, Galactica cruising over the moon to see the Africa Earth shot. (By the way I correctly predicted Kara’s jump on the 15th here)

“March 15, 2009 at 9:57 PM

Also thinking about Kara bringing them to their end. How about she executes a blind getaway jump and they find themselves near a lovely habitable planet?

The waiting is killing me.”

(Just disregard all my other half baked theories and remember this one!)

I have been going back and forth with myself as to whether I would have liked the screen to have gone black after the “cruising over the moon Africa Earth shot”. Of course I wanted Kara to be with Lee, but after contemplating that she really died during Maelstrom, I felt like every moment with Kara after she returned, was borrowed from the the “Immortal Composer”. Maybe what left me wanting after the arrival on Africa Earth was that our group of heroes never said a proper goodbye to eachother, maybe more than that I wanted our heroes to choose to live/travel together. (I know at least Tigh, Ellen and the Agathons were together, nice.)

The splitting up reminded me of “Fingerprints of the Gods” a book I read years ago that theorized that there was a vastly more sophisticated race on Earth in the past, it cited evidence of fabulously detailed maps of Antartica that are in existence (carbon dated from the 1100-1300’s) and remarkably, we (modern folks) have not been able to produce such maps until satellite technology. It also had some interesting theories about pyramids, which would fit well with the BSG ending that everyone was separated, but came from the same sophisticated race.

At any rate, Chief went to Ireland? Does that explain the Irish? (Ha, ha no offense, I’m Irish by marriage :). (Did I say how my Irishman tried to ruin the finale for me?)

Galactica, brave Galactica ramming the colony, very, very nice.

Dorv, I’m glad Boomer was brought to justice. (I’m glad Tory was called to account too.)

Cavil’s suicide. Very odd.

Baltar’s remark about, “We can breed with them” and Adama’s, “You have a one track mind” was funny.

Tim-1, I was happy for you that the Agathons were given a happy ending.

Akbar, I thought of you when I saw the Old School Centurions, I thought, oh I bet he likes this.

Keith, I would like to say it has been a joy to read your reviews, nobody does them better.

As far as what should I call myself now – Can I still be bsgfan2003? ;) ?

I know I have more to say. I’ll be back.

March 21, 2009 at 6:02 PM

to DB: Of course, it makes so much sense that the last few minutes are not about the series, as much as about us… here in the actual reality, which is perhaps a lot more like this fictional reality than I sometimes care to admit.

I did some exploring into the meanings behind the “joker” and the “thief” this morning as I reflected on the importance of that song, this show, and the many connections that we have because of all this mythology we are creating.

These thoughts have catapulted me into a much more colorful look at the series, especially with the importance of the watchtower song (a song not only important to RDM and now BSG, but also to countless people since it was written and throughout its lengthy history)

I see a strong parallel between all of this and the Matrix, specifically the challenge of the red/blue pill and the choice to (blue) stay in wonderland (and let the cycle be perpetuated) and (red) see how deep the rabbit hole goes (and break the cycle). The review I read about the joker and the thief allowed me to connect the Joker to the blue pill – seeing the illusion of our daily struggles that we are constantly drawn into – and the thief to the red pill – as we are ‘robbed’ of this escape, which may actually be devastating, AND could reveal its own powerful truth.

The song has resonated with people for a long time with strong themes of doomsday/11th hour/1 minute to midnight and it’s entirely fitting for the series in so many ways, especially when we look at the way they chose to end this show with a very strong message that this show is actually about us. When we come together as one group of people, we have a choice to make which is less about what’s going to happen to us, but about the kind of people we can be. Will we perpetuate the cycle of slavery in all its forms (which always ends with either mass genocide or an eventual uprising and shifting of power) or do we somehow break the cycle.

Perhaps the question to ask (that even the series could be seen as suggesting is its theme) is are we trapped into this cycle? Can we actually change the cycle, or is it ALWAYS doomed to repeat itself?

Like Lee Adama, I am an idealist. I applaud the choice for Adama (and ultimately everyone) to give the Centurions their freedom, which is fitting for the type of humans I think most of us wish we could be, even though we tend more often to destroy (or enslave) the things we fear.

PS – Speaking of idealists… how many of you, like me, had their heart go out to Lee when Starbuck (in Caprica before the fall) accused him of being an idealist? She really gets my blood boiling, but all the more credit to seeing her total growth in this series.

March 21, 2009 at 7:53 PM

I agree, it’s about now. Thanks for the great writing and perfomances to everyone on the crew. We frakking loved it!

March 22, 2009 at 3:37 PM

Who mourns for Boomer?

OK, I just had to put that up there because up until now not a single person, either at TVS or CC has expressed any symphany for her. Oh, forgive my earlier outburst on the writers on her death, not that I condone or like it (of course not!), but I do not want to go out here blasting the writers who, after all, gave us this fine show. Secondly, they did give Athena, and a number of eights a happy ending. But I can’t desert Boomer in her eleventh hour, after all….who is more fitting to defend her? I will get back to this later.

On those who take exception to any criticism to the finale (or any episode), do not look at it as a putdown of BSG. In fact, such discussions should be taken as it is….a compliment to a TV show good enough that people take time out of their lives to analysis and seek improvement. By and large the BSG fanbase are pretty intelligent and they don’t miss much. Remember all those times the Galactica took in all those enemy gun showers? BSG is a lot like that….it is big enough to take it.

I know a lot of issues were not totally laid to rest, but I was happy with how it turned out overall. I mean, when one of the last scenes is one presenting Athena smiling, what more could I ask for, right? And some eights made it too. This thought occured to me about the eights that survived: Let’s say you were a colonist and were asked which company you prefer to settle down with on your new planet. I, for one could answer that in so many different ways, such as….”I prefer to reside with an eight”….or “Ah, may I hang out with the eights”….”Let’s see, um, yes, I’d be delighted to accompany an eight”….”Pleeeeeeease let me have an eight”….and so on….

Obviously there are many strenghs to BSG, they are not hard to list. And of course there were a number of things that could have been been improved upon, but as mentioned, BSG was big enough, and good enough, to dwarf any negatives. If I had to pick my own little pet peeve (other than the overly abusive manner in which they subjected my beautiful eights) it would be the odd way they portrayed some of the protagonists out of character at times. The recent example is Cavil’s suicide. Some will argue otherwise, but Cavil’s yen to live would seem to preclude the probability of his self destruction.

Ah Boomer, such a beautiful, tragic figure. Much has been written about her co-called downward spiral, the bad choices she’s made, her envy of Athena, and so on. I won’t try to mitigate the things she has done, because it really dosen’t make any difference now. Many people rejected Boomer, including friends, commenters, my dear friends on this site, the YSG….and I understand and accept that. I am at peace with the rules of paying for the choices one makes. Boomer was a Grace Park character. So if I could make one final case for Boomer, it would be the hope that people will remember that final act of decency and courage in doing the right thing in the end. That….was the real Boomer. The process of forgiveness begins with finding the way to be at peace from within. It is our inherent qualities of mercy that must be realized first, in order to acknowledge that true strengh is the ability to heal the wounds of others….therefore ourselves.

What a talented group of actors we witnessed here. They were all fabulous. Grace Park’s portrayal of the eights was legendary. Athena was the conqueror of our prejudices, the model of strengh and resolve, and a champion to underdog and winner alike. She was, for me, the ideal woman played by an ideal woman.

Bsgfan203: On Feb. 27, we were blessed with a fat-cheeked little boy. He weighed 7-11, a lucky number. His name is Tyler (Tyler-1 ha ha). He has my wife’s ethereal beauty. He also has my boyish good looks, my profound intellect, my….(Whack! Ow! shoe missle from wife again)…anyway, He is so cute, you would love him aunt bsgfan. He might even turn Grace Park’s head. Maybe I can get him to get her autograph for me someday.

I am sad and a little crestfallen that BSG is really over. The Yancy Street Gang is more sad because now they can’t read you guy’s reviews anymore. So now they are threatning to have me fired unless I don’t get on board some other show with you guys!

I think I should tell them not to worry. You guys won’t get rid of Tim-1 that easily. I will still be around these blogs, after all, somebody has to help keep an eye on Dorv. I’ll be popping in sooner or later.

I wish to say that I care a lot about you people, my friends: Dorv, bsgfan2003, Akbar, cress d., Keith….well, in a way you are my internet extension of the Yancy Street Gang, so to speak. I wish good things to happen in your lives, I have and will continue to enjoy reading your intelligent, well-written reviews. For me, you will be as much a part of BSG as any of the stars themselves. Thank you all for enriching my experience of Battlestar Galactica. As Adama would say: We’re done here. God bless you all.

ps: my favorite number will forever be….eight.

March 22, 2009 at 6:28 PM

Maybe you should rename yourself Tim-8 :)

Congratulations on the little one!

When it comes to the people that understand specific characters best, I always tend to believe that the actors who inhabit them will know them better even than the writers. I’ve heard that several actors were able to influence the end of things (i.e. McDonnell standing by Roslin having to die, RDM was to have them ride off in the sunset). In Cavil’s case, he was originally written to die in a fight with one of the five (Tyrol or Tigh, can’t remember) and take a tumble off of that raised platform. It was Stockwell that called RDM and made the case for his suicide.

March 23, 2009 at 9:25 PM

Hey! I like it!

March 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM

Oh Tim-1, I’m so honored to be internet auntie to Tyler-1! Tell your wife, she did good!
I pray for all good things for your little man. He is very lucky to have such a big-hearted dad! Kiss his feet for me ;)

March 23, 2009 at 9:12 PM

Thank you Aunt bsgfan2003! And by the way, forgive me the typo spelling on your glorious name. Thank you too, Dorv.

March 23, 2009 at 12:53 AM

I’m just disappointed that the answer to everything was God. Head Six and Head Balthar = Angels from God, Cara = some sort of other worldly spirit. Hera’s musical notes = God put them in her head. Cara’s dad = Spirit. Coordinates to new earth = God.

They had 4 budget episodes leading up to the finale where they spent hours on exposition around the main characters and the best answer was a God that controlled every detail to the point of ensuring that the human race arrived on Earth. Why not just give them the coordinates on a stone tablet with a list of rules that they needed to follow once they arrived?

March 23, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Two things on the whole “god” thing.

1. The show has always been heavily steeped in religion and faith. Nothing wrong with that faith finally being shown to be proven worthy.

2. “he doesn’t like to be called God” clearly showed to me that we aren’t talking about some cosmic old dude up in the clouds pulling strings. I saw the end of the show being the universe allowing a course correction of it’s creation. Let it finally fix itself properly and start anew.

March 23, 2009 at 11:32 AM

“However, Kara being an angel in the same way the Head people were is against the apparent “rules” we’ve seen. Kara was interacting with things and people — touching and moving things that people could see.

Also, wasn’t Head Six, you know, kinda evil?”

Here is how I see that Keith.

Kara- The universe in its attempts to get “course correction” used Sixinthehead and BaltarintheHead to help things along. It realized that to do so a little more of a physical presence was needed to get things going in the right direction. Enter Reborn-Kara. Recreate her and give her a shiny viper (think about it… making a viper is a hell of alot easier then creating a human) to have her pop back in and make things move the right way.

As for Evil SixintheHead… she was both. Look at everything she has ever done and you will see both good and evil come from her lips. And technically, Kara does not break the head characters rules.

Think back to Balter in Athena’s future cell. When we see SixintheHead in her gym clothes instead of a sexy outfit… she does move a chair. One could argue that was in Baltar’s head but it is food for thought.

March 23, 2009 at 11:39 AM

Sorry for all my random thoughts. The whole thing is still churning in my head.

The finale for me gave us the last parallels to the original show. You have to admit that as much as the new show tried to be different from the original, it many many times honored the original and gave us parallel creations.

Reborn-Kara: Ship Of Lights

Footage of robots at end: Footage of Moon Landing

March 23, 2009 at 11:43 AM

The finale for me gave us the last parallels to the original show.

Don’t forget the original music as the ships were sent off into the Sun.

March 23, 2009 at 11:59 AM

True, but I guess I didn’t consider it since we have already had the original theme as the “Colonial Anthem” used before.

March 23, 2009 at 6:54 PM

Its all been said before (and will be said again?).

The longer I live with the finale, the more I like it. Do I think we would have been better served learning these things about our heroes via flashbacks in earlier episodes? Sure. Do I think, though, that they do serve a purpose into one last glimpse into their lives? Absolutely.

RDM released his podcast today, and he hammered home something that I read in an interview posted elsewhere in these comments: “Its the characters, stupid.” This show has been about character development over plot from day one. This finale continued that theme until the end.

I must preface with this: These comments that RDM and the team couldn’t come up with answers, and just made it confusing for the sake of art, frustrate me to no fraking end. Like the finale or don’t, but there’s no need to shit over the people that made it.

What was Kara? What answer would have been good enough?

Why let the Centurions go? Find me another moral solution that doesn’t demonize our heroes.

The show’s exploration of its religious themes have always played an important role in the show, and I expected them to in the finale.

Great to see the little things here and there… Admiral Hoshi and President Lampkin. ‘Nothing but the rain…’ The Colonial Theme (Which I, again, missed).

Cavil killing himself makes sense to me. Manipulation and control were his themes, and there was no way he’d make it out of the CIC, let alone the ship, let alone the colony, alive.

Chief/Tory: Good pay off, but even I will say that I don’t know if Cally was worth trading the peace for. OR, I can say that Cally was the difference between finding Earth, or just repeating the Cycle of Balance.

The coda: If there’s something I’m iffy about, its this. Instantly, BSG became a morals tale. I’ve loved its take on topical subjects before, but effectively saying, “Watch out for your toasters” was a bit of a let down for me.

Though, the coda did contain the exchange between Head Six & Baltar essentially saying that “It [God] doesn’t like being called God.” What does that mean?

I like this, and the several other open questions that were left for us. Those that think that The Plan will answer a lot of these questions will be sorely disappointed.

Its been a great run. I reference the Guest Clack I did the other day, and how much I appreciate this community. Tim-8 (sorry, its sticking, at least with me): I hope you find a show or two to stick around in the discussion. Akbar, I love Serenity. BSG: I’m still not saying it. Keith: Thank you for knowing what you’re talking about, and doing what you do.

March 23, 2009 at 7:20 PM

Now that I have had time to chew on it, the Cavil suicide makes sense to me. Cavil reminds me of that thing in Lord of the Rings that was blind and toothy, that threw daggers with it’s words. I think Gandalf called him Faithless and Accursed. Cavil was a monster, and a mouthpiece for what is evil in the universe.

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